Teacher Pay Scale Across Canada - Update for 2011

I would have to say "Yes" Who am I to think they do not deserve a raise. They work hard like all the rest of us do. I do not think they should be striking this time of year. Some professions have been classified as essential services and therefore can not legally strike and I think teachers should fall under the same umbrella. Our children are our future and should not be used as pawns in these silly little games that government and unions continue to play.

I think the ridiculous thing is that people think funding for education should mean teachers get more money! We need more funding for our students... we need to upgrade our computers and software. We need new textbooks, new class novel sets, money for math manipulatives, refurbished science labs, the list goes on. Sadly when people stirke and want more funding they want it in their pocket..... I live in Quebec, I don't get paid as much as everyone else, but my school needs more funding not me. Would I like a raise? Who the hell wouldn't!!!! everyone wants a raise haha. But if I were told that I could get a thousand dollars a year more or my students could get 65 thousand dollars more (1000 per teacher) I would chose that alternative. For one, my $1000 will be taxed and not come close to that, and what will I use it for? Bills or something I don't need. the $65000 will all go to the students and there are programs schools need investing in so that us teachers can do our jobs more efficiently.

SK teachers already have other perks that teachers in other provinces don't get. 15 PD days...we get 6. Time off in lieu of extra-curricular...what a novel idea. They might want to compare their current salaries with the average person in Saskatchewan. There's a time and a place to ask for more. I don't have all the facts, I'm sure, but is this really the right time?

The actual figure is .5 million per day.

Do I think SK teachers are overpaid? No. I know how hard I worked to get to where I am, so I wouldn't begrudge teachers the same opportunity. I just don't like or agree with the tactics of the teacher's union (or any unions today for that matter). Making comparisons to incomes in AB is not a fair comparison. Almost everyone makes 25% more in AB (I know, not everyone, but on average incomes are significantly more)....

That is what you see happening when you are on the outside. The reality is that most teachers will take half of that time off at most. The rest they usually spend planning for the next year, as their curriculum has changed. Not to mention the 1/3 of their weekend through the rest of their year they gave up coaching, or taking the kids on field trips. I only mention the weekends, but many evenings are burnt up also.

People look at the days and hours they have to contractually be there for, and for that time they get paid well, but that is never all the time they spend at the job

Just curious; what kind of hours do you work? How many weeks of vacation do you take?
What are the perks of being in your profession?
FYI,there are very few teachers that take the summer off; preparing for a new school year and keeping up with curriculum updates and programming is huge and has to happen in that 2 month window. The other breaks that come at Christmas and Easter are rarely work free as new units have to prepared, and are also filled with many hours of marking and assessment.
I love my profession and just want to receive a fair deal. If you check the facts and realize how many times teachers have taken minimal (0 to 2%) increases, you might agree that it is our turn to get a larger piece of the pie.
I hope you can credit a teacher(s)with going the extra mile in helping you to get where you are today. What was he/she worth to you? To our province?
Sincerely,
bfischer

I would love to see you try to get a paycheck at the end of June, then not see another cheque until the end of September. It is not a 2 month "holiday" as so many people like to point out... Most people get paid for holidays. Teachers do not. We get paid for working 197 days, and many teacher's salaries fluctuate month to month as they get paid for the number of teaching days in that month. So those so called "holidays" are more like a lay-off. That is why so many teachers have to get a second job, at least in the summer, to help pay the bills. I like to see an engineer who needs a second job...

I appreciate your perspective, but you may be comparing, well, different kinds of apples at any rate. Perhaps Spartan with Gala or something along those lines. Permit me to coordinate and perhaps enhance some of your data.
The majority of teachers in Saskatchewan are Class 4, rather than Class 6. A relatively recent Government of Saskatchewan publication (2009 Saskatchewan Education Indicators Report - the link is ridiculously long, but Google should find that title for you easily enough) provides some numbers, with Class 4 comprising about 60% of all teachers. Although some of the source data was from slightly different years, the numerical breakdown stated in the document was:
Class 4: 6,711 teachers
Class 5: 3,567 teachers
Class 6: 798 teachers
In order to hold a Class 6 today I would have to hold my BA Advanced (4 years), my B. Ed After Degree (2 years), AND a Master's (Let's say 2 years in a perfect world). That's 8 years. At one time a single year of Grad studies was enough, but no longer, you have to have the completed Master’s degree. Very few teachers make it to that level, and not many even go to a Class 5. I am currently a Class 5, and the likelihood of taking a couple of years off to get a Master's becomes vanishingly small when I consider the expenses and loss of income involved, and no doubt many people who take time off from work to raise kids can relate to that particular equation. In this instance of educational advancement, it would take many years to recoup any benefits I might gain in eventual salary increases. And in today’s budget-driven world a Class 6 might actually price me out of the job market if I don't already have a permanent contract.
After 15 years my Class 5 will garner me $76,593 according to the current CBA (a Class 4 would make $73,036, while as you say a Class 6 would make $80,957 - not a lot of difference). That is assuming Full Time work, which is another barrel of fruit altogether, where in Saskatoon for instance there are more than 400 teachers on the substitute teacher list hoping for unpredictable hours, part-time or temporary contracts, or the rare bestowment of a permanent contract. Right now I am fortunate to have hit the 6th step, based on sub days and both full and part-time contracts, for remuneration of $62,821 per year. I have been teaching for about 14 years, and yes I have moved a couple of times to and from rural Saskatchewan following the contract trail. So, while it is my fervent hope to land the Full-Time Continuing contract one of these days, I have to recognize that I have been luckier than many in garnering the contract hours I have had so far, and the projected time frame for me to hit the max in my classification could be another 18 years, not just the 9 you might think at first glance. Fitting in a Master's would be problematic at best, and hardly worth it financially. I am not at all up on the costs of University education, but if we cast a ballpark dollar figure for tuition, books, and cost of living at $30,000 a year, which might well be a low estimate, I will never - never - recoup my expenses during the course of my remaining career. Let's take a look at these numbers:
Suppose I land that PFT contract next week, and (somehow) took an approved Educational leave. On my return in 2 years following a successful Master's bid, I would spend most of the following decade reaching the 15 year mark (remember I just recently reached the 6th step). After that 15th year step has had a year under the belt that would make $24,897 more earned over that time period than I would have made as a Class 5. Presuming that $60K figure for the two years Master's degree, that would leave me with another $35,103 to recover. With the difference between a Class 5 and Class 6 at that point being 4,364 that would make another 8 years and change before I recovered those costs. And let's not forget these are Gross salary figures dealing with cash on the barrel costs. Maybe some of that could be considered as offset by any contract increases for argument's sake, but certainly not all.
Once you include family financial management into the mix, which might include daycare, and also consider the impact of losing two years of pensionable earnings, or absence of health insurance, drug plans, even reflections on credit ratings whilst a student you have a pretty challenging scenario with long-term ramifications for anyone thinking about getting that Class 6.
Sadly it is very unlikely that I will seriously consider pursuing a Master's degree just to get that Class 6, and the vast majority of teachers will never see that max you identified from the salary grid. The numbers don’t lie – a mere 7.2% of teachers hold a Class 6, according to the government statistics in the 2009 publication. That’s 7.2% of teachers who have the potential to reach that high-end $80,957 mark. Not all of those have even made the 15 year mark yet.
If you're still with me, let's take a look at those apples again, shall we? I like your 2 months off concept, by the way, if only I had the luxury of doing that, making 62K gross intermittently doesn`t really let me do that though.... And being done on June 30th and going back August 25th, not counting the Professional Development on August 23rd doesn`t quite make 2 months, but I don`t want to quibble about the number of days too much.
However, I guess one question might be, how many paid holidays does any professional or other unionized worker, really, get per year as part of your employment? What entitlements does your employer provide? I know at my other job after 15 years and based on something like years of full time equivalent hours I get 5 weeks paid vacation. After 25 years it goes up to 6 weeks. Perhaps your rate is something like that. Some people get 7 weeks, but they`ve been working longer. As a teacher I get no paid holidays per year, no matter how long I work. I get paid no overtime, ever. I get paid no bonuses or dividends, ever. It doesn`t even matter if I get my Master`s, really, all it does is bump my annual salary up, about 320 dollars a month to start. Shall I say Whoopee? If I supervise during my unpaid lunch hour or other unpaid times I can take time off from work instead of taking the pay. A lot has been made of that in some media discussion, but I point out it takes a whole whack of supervision to take one day off when you`re accruing half hour increments.
So, all things being equal, let`s compare them apples. I`ll even use my other job as an example, and you can compare with your own job since I don`t know your own particulars.
At my other job, and this is the same for many of the thousands who work for the same employer, I start with 52 weeks per year, at 5 work days per week that is 260 days. 5 weeks of holidays makes it 235 days. Take off the dozen Stat holidays (also paid) and you have 223 days of work. We also have a bank day off every three weeks, about 17 per year, taking it down to 206. As a teacher there are about 200 teaching days over the course of the school year. Some Professional Development thrown into the mix and there is very little difference in the days per year worked. In fact, at my other job, if I have the opportunity to work overtime it isn`t all that hard to reach the same earnings level as I do if I teach full time. If I work overtime there, I can bank the time at 2X, so for every overtime day worked I can take two scheduled days off with pay. Now, I can`t do both jobs of course, but if I work full time over the 7 weeks I have off during the summer and luck into significant overtime I might be able to come close to that $80K mark you mentioned earlier. I would have to work full-time as well as an additional $12, 000 of overtime to do that, on my “time off” – 100+ hour weeks! Or, during the school year I could work 112 8 hour shifts on weekends, but wait, there are only 90 weekend days during the school year. You get the point, maybe, that there is a bit of a difference between my 62K and the “Holy Grail” of that $80,957 that I’ll never reach anyway.
Last thing, and I’m sorry for taking so long here, but this has turned into an interesting sojourn. Government implications about Saskatchewan teacher salaries seem predicated on the same percentile statistics you brought up. I had a reasonable look through the salary schedules you so kindly provided, and while there are many classifications and types I can’t help but notice that the top salaries command in the neighbourhood of a quarter of a million dollars per year. That’s of course indicating the 95th percentile – close to the 7.2% of teachers that make the top salary we have - $80,957. We don’t have anything like that! Over the past four years the increase to your average salaries is indicated as being 22.4%, or an average of 5.6% per year. No doubt it is more complicated than those bald figures, but I can tell you solemnly right now teachers in Saskatchewan would likely be happy to accept percentages like that!
I agree with your statement about asking for the 25% raise just because you would get paid more if you moved to Alberta. In my case it would be closer to a 50% raise in many places, from Thunder Bay to Vancouver, but still, I see your point. Yet I wonder what the scenario was in 1989 when the average salaries for engineers increased by 27.6%? Maybe the gap in earnings between Saskatchewan engineers and your colleagues elsewhere was getting too great, and there was an equalization of sorts. Perhaps there was a period of great economic prosperity in the province. Maybe that is the scenario teachers in Saskatchewan are facing today, 20 years or so later than the engineers. In any event, if I were making $95K with my Master’s and with the potential to push that up another $100K or so, I might not complain either, even if my counterparts a few hundred kilometers away were making 25% more. And let me be clear, and I’m stepping on some toes here on both sides of this fence maybe, but God Bless engineers for doing everything they do, you can’t look anywhere without seeing the evidence of incredible things, fundamentals that to earlier people would seem like magic. The effects are everywhere, and I say engineers are worth every penny. If not for engineers I would be ”a hewer of wood and drawer of water” – and even THAT is thanks to the mind of an engineer at heart from the distant past. And yet, is not the effect of the teacher’s trade similarly evident everywhere we look? What, after all, is at the foundation of every society if not learning? We seek some modicum of financial remuneration, to be sure, but more than that, and perhaps more valuable than the coin the government choose to focus on, we seek an affirmation of the intrinsic worth and value of teachers in our society.

I have been teaching many years and I know how much extra time most teachers spend outside of classroom time doing unpaid tasks. I highly commend you and your wife for all of the extra time spent on putting your children first.

I have to disagree with you about several points.

a) It is not Unions, but governments that are not putting kids first. The money has
be there for schools to properly operate. Class sizes must be reasonable.

b) Teacher salaries must double in order to attract skilled and talented people.

c) Teachers have worked hard to get to where they are. It takes alot of effort and
skill to pass the grades and university courses.

d) Who is going to support the teacher. The best schools have parents, students,
school boards and staff with positive attitudes.

e) Perhaps schools should be privatized. Parents that can't pay or students that
can't behave must be or should be excluded from an education. Then teaching
would become very Professional.

f) Pay for merit does not encourage young students graduating from grade 12 to enter
the teaching profession. You could find that would be no teachers for hire.

g) Yes, support the children first. Positive support is the key to success. If
parents tell their children that they are going to a great place each and every
morning, their children's attitude towards school will be enhanced. Children
tend to reflect the ways of society. Do you think that we live in a healthy
society?

h) It is not easy to coast when there is a classroom full of children looking at you.

i) The greater the class size, the greater incidents of misbehavior and down time
(time off task).

j) Treat people with respect and kindness no matter who they are and the way you
like to be treated.

I do agree with you that salaries are way too high in some provinces in Canada. On the other hand, do we value education more or less in our belle province if compared to the rest of Canada. When I started to teach in 1991 it was hard to find a teaching job in Quebec. I chose to stay here because of family, although I received calls to work in Calgary and Vancouver. I do have regrets because they are richer provinces and they value teaching and teachers. You speak of poor teaching performance... lets speak of poor system performance and lack of parenting involvement. First, a poor performing teacher is put through constant evaluations during their teaching and when performance is not up to standard they are required to review their methods and are frequently observed in class. I feel that the Quebec is the most mismanaged system where teachers are required to teach without any formal training, children with learning disabilities. Furthermore, they provide very little support for the students with special needs. To this we add the prorate of services. I taught in English School Boards-they seem to suffer the most because of the decreasing clientele.

You also mention that there is work brought home. How many jobs unless personal business requires you to bring work home? You have to prepare for your class (knowing your subject inside out), manage behaviour(learning disabilities) and teaching and reaching out to everyone with their own learning pace. Really, parents complain that school provides them with a break from their kids. Try being in classrooms of 30 or oversized classrooms of 40 grade 10 or 11 students coded behavioural or learning disability.
I worked in the field for over 10 years and stopped to care for my children. Especially, that my son has a learning disability. I witnessed his teacher's frustration in trying to deal with his disability and his antics that result from his inability to comprehend what is going on, why is he stupider and slower than the others. We were able to diagnose my son with a particular learning disability with a cost of 1,600.00 in a private office. Now had we waited-let me rephrase...had we patiently waited for financial reasons for the government to evaluate our child, well he would have been dumped in a regular class and left to fend on his own while on a waiting list to be assessed.
How many single mothers or parents who do not have the money for these evaluations have to see their child treated like a ''RETARD''. Speaking from a teacher and mother point of view I truly see how the Quebec system is poorly run at the school board levels and the MEQ plans. I find it very unfortunate that some individuals or director generals leave with lovely retirement packages as if they worked for big firms. While some students suffer in anguish waiting to be helped and provided with the necessary aid from an ailing system that was meant to provide it to them. Some parents leave everything to the teachers or blame too quickly the teacher for any difficulty their child has. I have been on both sides of the fence and see that some parents invest little time with their children to help them with their work after school. Parents cannot and should not rely on the system or the school to aid their child. In short, parents should be very involved with their children's school and after school work. Just as your wife has done. I urge parents to speak to the parents who represent them and have that individual bring up grievances in a diplomatic tone. I have witnessed firsthand parents who come to school wanting to settle an issue the wrong way. Not all parents are equal and not all children are. Our educational system in Quebec is the poorest and the most ailing as our medical system.

You also spoke of a teacher who was getting too familiar with junior girls I have never witnessed that. I do believe it exists and yes they are simply transferred as are students caught selling drugs or using it. We were told that is the way things were done. In addition, I knew of an elementary janitor who was accused of being a pedophile as usual the hush hush and transfer to another school is the frequent option. Do we not reintegrate pedophiles in our society who live near families and schools. However the lukewarm attitude toward teachers that you mention seems to be generalized. There are feely touchy teachers, there are feely touchy principles etc. When a certain line is crossed then prompt action should be taken. Finally, in all fields there is the incompetent and the grossly incompetent (touchy feely...). There is not any denying. If I were a parent I would be present at school make truly sure that the children’s claims are valid because they are children. You may find great support and confirmation from best people to witness this behaviour firsthand- teachers who will support you and will confirm as I am sure they also care about the school children and the school’s reputation.
Teacher

This is an incredibly intelligent comment and I'm so glad to hear there are some educators out there who still think this way and are concerned for both their classroom and society as a whole.

Yes, Teachers are integral to society. Yes, most do an incredible service for our children, and yes most work very hard. However, I am astonished to see close to $90,000 per annum for a teacher in Alberta and many are STILL NOT HAPPY??! When does this stop? It's beginning to look like teachers aren't in it for the kids at all, but just in it to get a long summer holiday, no weekends, and a fancy new car.

The fact of the matter is that Education is a public service. The government only has so much money. If you don't like that fact, get out of the public sector. I'd like to see some of these young teachers survive in the private sector where yes you have the ability to earn unlimited income, but you also start out VERY LOW. For example, an entry level position in the Finance industry can be as low as $30,000 per annum. That graduate also spent at least 4 years getting a Bachelors Degree, and sometimes more. So do they merit $70,000 as a starting salary as well? The simple answer is no, because the private sector realises that you have to EARN your wage, and prove your worth to your profession, beyond simply educating yourself. I can think of many teachers who deserve much more than they are paid, but I can also think of many who deserve half and are there for all the wrong reasons.

I 100% agree with needing more money put towards reducing class sizes, providing teachers with valuable resources, and ensuring our children are learning from the best and in a safe environment. These insane demands for raises to take teachers far and above what is already a more than livable wage are simply taking resources from the children and putting them in the teachers pockets. If you really care about your students and their wellbeing you'd be more than happy to keep your very reasonable pay and allocate more to the classroom.

Now I know there are a lot of teachers out there who do feel this way and I applaud them. I could never do what a good teacher does and I am so thankful that there are people out there willing to help provide for my childs education. What I don't stand for however is greed, especially in these tough times. You are not the only ones who are educated. You are not the only ones who do a service for this community.

If you don't like it, you're in the wrong profession.

"That said, I would like to offer some modest perspective on a teacher's 'worth'. I live in Ontario and make just under $75,000 a year. That makes my pre-tax income roughly $15 per day, per student. In contrast, the local kennel that boards my dog during the work day charges over $20.00 per day.
Keeping this in mind, would you not agree that teachers provide a high-value public service?"

I am so sick of hearing teachers make this highly illogical argument - I hope you aren't a math or business teacher. That kennel that boards your dog for $20 a day has to pay for rent/heat/hydro/telephone/internet/office supplies/computers/staff/insurance etc... that all has to come out of that $20. Are teachers fronting any costs associated with teaching like a business owner would? NO. Are teachers in EVERY province well paid? YES. In comparison, my best friend is a government scientist that has 8 years of post secondary and a masters - salary is about $60k for 12 months work with 2 weeks off. I know he is at work on a regular basis at night and on weekends checking on experiments running in the lab. Now - compare to an Ontario teacher of the same age with 2 years less education that is making close to 50% more money and works over 2 months less - something is wrong with this equation and it isn't that he's grossly underpaid. Teachers are seriously the whiniest, self important egomaniacs you will ever meet. It's honestly disgusting.

I work as a programmer in the private sector, and get paid less than if I worked for in the govt union. Teachers salaries are on par with all govt union salaries, which are probably 25% higher than in the private sector. I think all the rest of us need to declare a new law where everyone with a Bachelors degree automatically gets the same salary as a Teacher. nuf said. p.s.