Spinning an object in a perfectly horizontal circle?

I was teaching my physics class the other day. We are doing centripetal motion right now. We just finished dynamics, and learning about forces, and now we just got into circular motion.

A lot of the questions in the textbook have to do horizontal circular motion, and a lot of the questions in the textbooks ask "determining the tension of the string when an object is spun horizontally". I never questioned these statements before, but then I started my usual dialogue with my students about all the forces acting on the object being spun... They started to list off: Tension, Force of gravity... oh oh, I thought. Why is the object not falling to the ground, if there is only one force acting in the vertical direction? Horizontally it is accelerated into the circle by the Tension force of the string, and that's why it is rotating. But what about vertically? I started to think about it the whole class. By the end of the class, I was convinced that there is no way that we can actually spin something perfectly horizontally - that it is impossible. But I still thought that maybe I was just not thinking of some other factor.

Later in the class, the students were doing an activity spinning objects: changing the radius, finding the speed of the objects. They then had to make a graph of v versus r, and analyze it. A simple activity, but I was really making sure I was paying attention whether any of the students could actually get their objects and string perfectly horizontally... and they couldn't. Further support for my hypothesis.

Right after class, I read all my textbooks on circular motion. None of them touched upon my dilemma. Then I asked Google, whether it was possible for an object to spin perfectly horizontally, the string and object in the same plane. No satisfactory answer, but I suspect I wasn't looking properly, since I can't be the only teacher asking themselves this seemingly simple question.

So here is my hypothesis: It is impossible to spin an object horizontally where both the object and the string lie in the same plane, no matter how fast you are spinning the object, because the object must have a vertical force opposing gravity. (I suspect this would come from the vertical component of the tension force of the string.)

Consequence: When asking questions about tension of the string spinning horizontally, one cannot use only centripetal force as the answer. This will give only the horizontal component of the tension. The vertical component of the tension must come from (opposing) gravitational force of the object... and then we must put these together.

Now that I thought about this over the weekend, I am so very certain that I'm right. But still, let me know if you think otherwise, or if you agree with me. I don't want to teach my students something completely bogus, and then realize that I missed something...

PLEASE HELP!!! (comment to help)

Submitted by bogusia on Mon, 10/22/2012 - 07:18

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Comments

A with so many things in Physics text books we make some assumptions. In the problems you do with your students we assume that when we say perfect "horizontal circle" that there is no real force of gravity. What we should really be thinking about is a pendulum moving in a circle. The force of gravity will be equal to the vertical component of the tension and the horizontal component will be the centripital motion. You can do this if you have done 2-d mechanics.

I would be curious for your students to do a percent error calculation and see how close it comes to the actual error in not factoring gravity/vertical tension

Yeah... I was thinking of the same thing - the % error would be interesting to see. Yes, and since we did 2-D dynamics, my students are totally capable of doing the true calculations. Thanks for answering (and agreeing with me), I didn't want to think I'm the only one thinking like this.

I think it is theoretically and practically impossible to even pull a string with no extra weight tightly enough to be horizontal. The raising comes from pulling outwards (horizontall opposition), but in a perfect horizontal system there will be no upward vertical force from the pull.

As the string gets closer to horizontal, the flattening angle means there is less and less force pulling up and more and more, proportionally, pulling out. The force pulling up will approach zero. The closer you want to go to horizontal, the more total force you need to counter gravity. You will break whatever string you are using before you can get to horizontal as long as there is gravity.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I think Mythbusters did an episode about something similar to this... Thanks for the comment.

There is a post in a physics forum that touches on this issue... here is the link if you're interested: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=a18660a8abd41b0089546ec091...

You are the teacher. You tell us. Well I was never good at physics but you kind of made me think on this one. Will post if I find any satisfactory answer.
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I appreciate your theory of forces. But I just have read in the reference books that any object when comes in circular motion, gets stability when centripetal force is equal to forces on vertical and horizontal components.truck driver jobs

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