Are Teachers Worth the Money?
Judging from the comments from the article Teacher Pay Scale Across Canada, many people covet the schedule of a teacher and believe that they are paid too richly for simply reading textbooks. I think that teachers are not paid enough!
At the most abstract and philosophical, people get paid for value. How much would you pay me for a map to a long-lost gold nugget worth $1,000 that was buried in your backyard? Unless you have a logic deficiency, it would be some amount under $1,000. You might think it fair to split it 50/50 and offer me $500.
Hey! I have an MBA! I went to university for 6 years. Furthermore I invested 500 hours searching the old library archives to piece together the location of that lost nugget. My education entitles me to $50/hour, so for the 500 hours I'm going to need $25,000. You're lucky I'm not a lawyer at a big firm otherwise you'd be paying me $125,000 for that map.
That argument is ridiculous, yet it is the same type of argument that people use to grumble about the income and workload of teachers compared to their own. Investment bankers and lawyers work long hours, movers lift heavier things, and farmers never get time off. Nearly everyone thinks they should be paid more than a teacher. After all, teachers only babysit for about 6 hours a day because their marketable skills consist mostly of photocopying. They get months of holidays and never work overtime. If that's what you believe then the per hour and per unit of skill payrate of teachers is astronomical. So you grumble.
Generally, I think that the value of the teaching profession is tough to figure. It isn't like the gold nugget example because we don't really know how much we're getting from the teacher. I am, however, sure that it is a tremendous amount. Have a look at the mission statements and mandates of various provincial and state education departments. You'll read about preparing young people for participation in the global economy, about ensuring a country's leadership in this or that area, about building success and just generally creating high quality people.
It almost sounds like education departments think that they are delivering the future success of a society! Can we argue against that? Success in a society depends quite heavily on creating smart and ambitious people, which is pretty much what teachers should be doing. While we're at it, what is more valuable than the entire future of our society? If we look at it from “what value are we getting”, we would theoretically pay an almost unlimited amount.
Another reason people get paid a lot in the real world is because they have a lot of responsibility. A train engineer gets paid more than a truck driver because the train is worth many times more than the truck. A late train costs a lot more than a late truck and a crashed train could be a huge disaster. Railroads pay locomotive engineers a lot, and they expect only a few things: Be on time and don't cause an accident.
What responsibilities do teachers have? They only take care of human beings. Not just take care of them, but masterfully assembling the knowledge they'll need and trying to tease their personalities in being decent, healthy, achievers. Oh, there is also that whole future success of society thing. Over the years and decades, if teachers do a bad job, we could have generations of stupid and lazy people. That sounds like a potential train wreck to me! Many of the same people who think that a teachers job is worth little also think that young people are getting dumber. Maybe they're related.
Compare that responsibility to other jobs. Lawyers are responsible for what, really? Making sure that a contract leaves no loophole for the other party to run away? An MBA like myself is responsible for making sure that the detailed page 2 adds up to the number on page 1. Accountants need to be sure that money coming in ends up under the revenue column, and money going out under the expense column. Factory workers need keep up with assembly line. Landscapers dig holes deep enough for the roots. Fashion models need to keep their weight down and movie stars squeeze out tears on demand. None of those sound anywhere near as much responsibility as THE FUTURE OF SOCIETY!
So teachers have one of the highest levels of responsibility we can imagine, and produce an immeasurable amount of value for us. As a society, we really need to get behind them. When we underpay teachers, like we are here in Quebec where I live, it is saying that we expect a lot less from them. You couldn't pay a locomotive engineer $5/hour and expect precision timing with zero accidents; the employee simply wouldn't take you seriously and they wouldn't care. Paying them $120,000 per year is going to get their attention and respect.
Teachers are exactly the same. Their bosses mouth off about preparing future generations of people, but pay them like they're preparing hamburgers. Teachers can't take that seriously. Eventually, many teachers begin to care as much about their jobs as a hamburger cook cares about getting that pickle slice exactly in the middle of the patty. Everything becomes “pretend”. Teachers pretend they are highly skilled professionals, principals and education departments pretend they are chasing the lofty goals, and we all pretend we value our children and the future. The kids see this and they pretend all the way through school, getting out the other side with mainly self-taught cell-phone skills. It becomes a self-fullfiling prophecy.
Instead of playing around like that, let's just decide for sure what we want. I want a professional teacher, who is an expert in the topic she's teaching and the techniques of teaching. I want her to be motivated to make our kids tops in the world. I want her to be measured on performance, paid well for good performance, and fired for poor performance. I want our next generation of kids to be inventors, famous scientists, engineers, business people. Hard working with great values and enough resources to take care of me in my old age without grumbling, and to raise their own next generation in the same way. Teachers are the key to all that. We need to respect them, and to pay them, and demand performance.
I think teachers should be among the most highly paid segments of society.
RELATED POSTS
Teacher Pay Scales Across Canada
Higher Teacher Salary = Better Education
Reader Comment: Teachers Working as Escorts to Top Up Earnings.
Improving Pay for Deserving Teachers
Keywords:
Teacher, pay, value, career, salary
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Comments
Great post!
on Mon, 02/15/2010 - 21:49
I feel honored to be a teacher after reading your post.
After being a teacher for the last 10 years I realize what kind of influence I have on the kids. I agree completely with you in every part of the post. Thanks for putting this out there!
Pay the teachers more, so
on Mon, 10/03/2011 - 23:27
Pay the teachers more, so they can feel valued, thus they can give value and our children of tomorrow will actually be ready to lead the world. That's just my opinion.
Make it more challenging
on Wed, 02/17/2010 - 20:16
Let's raise the qualifications required to be a teacher.
If we do that, then we'll generally be left only with teachers that are both truly deserving and truly demanding of great respect and high wages.
It is already tough to find good teachers ...
on Fri, 02/19/2010 - 16:07
I would suggest we raise the demands on teachers. There is already a shortage of "good" teachers. Every school has several useless ones already. One I know about even has a convicted criminal as a teacher. Raise the demands through standardized testing, and raise the pay for teachers who meet those demands.
NO!
on Fri, 02/19/2010 - 21:18
They tried this already and failed. In the US there's still some school boards that follow this pattern, but there's an (ethical) issue with this idea.
1. The problem with this logic is that not all schools, or classes, or students are equal. I can be the best teacher but have the toughest bunch of kids to teach that will not perform well on a standardized test no matter how hard I try. The students are complex and have multiple prior experiences that my one year of teaching them might not help on the standardized test. (Or vice versa... the best students might not have the best teachers.)
2. Teachers would fight to teach the brightest kids and the weaker ones would get left behind... no good if we want to have everybody well educated. Plus, the tough cases need the best teachers!
3. Teachers will only teach to the test. Which means that all year long they will teach students to do well on questions that they`ll see during the standardized test. This means very route teaching / learning... no higher level thinking learning. Even if the tests are very designed with outstanding questions, teachers and students will find a way to just learn those types of questions and nothing more.
4. There would be a lot of cheating by the teachers and school. If their paycheck is the reflection on how well the student does on the test, then why not "help him along" during the test...
I disagree. Different method of measuring teaching performance has to be developed. Basing pay on standardized tests of students doesn't work.
By raising the
on Mon, 02/22/2010 - 17:09
By raising the qualifications, I meant something more like:
- Making it harder to qualify for a post-secondary education in teaching
- Making a teaching degree harder to get
- Requiring continuing education to remain a teacher
When I finished high school, the brightest students became doctors, lawyers or engineers, because they had the grades to do anything and those jobs were both challenging and highly paid.
Those with lesser grades had fewer options, the most appealing of which appears to be teaching. They'd take anyone, fail no one, and it only takes a couple of years to complete.
If, on the other hand, they accepted only students with the highest grades, and that it was a longer, more comprehensive program with a higher failure/drop-out rate, then the job would no longer attract the mediocre students. And those that qualified would both insist and deserve much higher salaries.
That's all I meant.
That is what should happen,
on Tue, 02/23/2010 - 22:36
That is what should happen, but if you do that without raising salaries in certain jurisdictions, then you would get no teachers because they would chase the money as you pointed out.
As well, some teachers don't really need very high grades. They probably need a different set of skills, most especially those who teach the lower grade levels. I can't imagine a gold medal mathematics student wanting to teach kindergarten, for example.
They should definitely be failing some teachers out of the teaching program, that's for sure. On the other side, I find that new teachers could be more engaged and effective than very senior teachers nearing retirement. They may lack some experience, but the older teachers are cynical and have poor attitudes that lead to poor results.
Many teachers do fail out of
on Wed, 02/24/2010 - 04:32
Many teachers do fail out of teaching programs.
And it is hard to get into teaching programs... I don't know why, but many people want to become teachers even though the wage is not all that good.
Just Nay-saying
on Tue, 02/23/2010 - 22:41
That is just nay saying. Teachers have to find a way of measuring themselves. If they don't like standardized testing then they should come up with something that is better. Measuring is the best way to improve performance. You tell us what you can produce that can be measured.
Yes, teachers will want the best students, just like they do now. Nobody wants a behavior problem or a slower learner even without standard tests.
As well, I don't see anything wrong with teaching the test. The test matches the curriculum, so if they "teach the test" then that means the student became functional at something when they pass the test.
You know what would be cool? If the school board did a surprise standardized test that neither the teacher nor the student knew about. Then we would see if any of the curriculum was being taught.
If I student is not smart,
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:48
If I student is not smart, and I teacher tries their best to teach them. That student will perform poorly on any testing. This reflects poorly on the teacher. Your assuming that every student has the same potential. Don't kid yourself.
A student might meet their highest potential in math, but do (what we consider) poorly on a test. This is not an accurate way to measure teachers skills or students meeting of potential.
Since you are the one who wants to measure teachers usefulness. Why don't you come up with a way to do that.
P.S.
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:54
Teaching the test is not a way to teach people. They need to learn the technique so that they can create solutions to different problems, not just the ones on the test. You want to push them to use their current knowledge to try and figure out something harder.
Or if you mean looking through a test and teaching the way to solve those types of problems, I can assure you that they already do this. Some people are just simple, and they cannot learn to the same extent as some students. So testing them will reflect poorly on teachers. Even though they taught the simple kids the most that they can absorb.
No Way
on Wed, 02/17/2010 - 21:26
Teachers are not resposible for anything! They're always complaining that they shouldn't be measured, and lots of them don't even know the subject they're teaching. Babysitters is what they are.
That's my point
on Fri, 02/19/2010 - 16:41
Teachers should be made responsible, and they should be paid. Who's going to educate the kids if not the teachers?
Teachers are not complaining.
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:41
Teachers are not complaining. My teachers work hard to help me learn, graduate and eventually get a job. I am not being babysat, thank you very much. I am probably learning more than you, seeing as your comments are completely ignorant.
You would be nowhere without your elementary and highschool teachers.
As with any profession, there is good and bad.
on Sat, 03/13/2010 - 17:08
I know many teachers and most are hard working, dedicated professionals. Unfortunately, as in ALL union and public sector controlled fields, the bad ones (and there are quite a few) are protected from the reality of being held responsible for their lack of dedication, skill and talent.
The long hours put in during the first few years of teaching (to prepare lessons & such) inevitably lead to laziness and in some cases incompetence.
The whining and complaining about funding, class sizes, teaching hours and working environment are usually based on selfishness and a feeling of entitlement.
Teachers should have a reality check and year round schooling should be adopted by the provinces. Costs must be brought down so more learning aids (books, school equipment and increased class time) can lead to higher student achievements. And salaries should be frozen - for a long time. If you don't like it, face reality and get real!
You're Right
on Sun, 03/14/2010 - 00:05
You're right about the unionized piece, which prevents the teacher from being held accountable for results.
I'm not sure about the whining, when a teacher says something about their working conditions we should listen. Classes of 30 or 40 students might be too large. What about non-existent textbooks? What about bad administration? I have many teacher friends and they have a lot to say about administration.
I think we should pay them, but hold them accountable.
Teachers are overpaid for
on Thu, 04/15/2010 - 23:22
Teachers are overpaid for the work they do.
My husband is a programmer, he works from 9-5 "officially", and then is expected most days to put in an extra 1-2 hours. Once a month, the company has mandated "hardcore" hours, where he works 12 hour days. Just before alpha/beta releases of products, he might drag himself through the door past midnight. He's extremely well educated, and this is normal in his industry.
Teachers work from 9-3 on average, with no real expectation of putting in extra hours. They get virtually every holiday in existence off, Christmas, and the entire f***'ing summer.
Teachers are overpaid.
First, the problem with your
on Fri, 04/16/2010 - 04:24
First, the problem with your comment is that you have experience with your programmer husband, but you don't have experience with any teacher, and you don't know what hours they actually work.
Secondly, I bet that your husband makes at least twice the amount of money than any teacher.
So no, I don't think teachers are overpaid.
What does your husband make?
on Fri, 04/16/2010 - 04:25
Maybe he makes a lot more than a teacher.
When you learn for yourself
on Tue, 12/06/2011 - 16:44
When you learn for yourself and when you teach others. when you teach something that means you are sharing your valuable knowledge. So Teachers Worth the Money.
Tom,
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Teaching
on Sun, 04/25/2010 - 19:06
I love how people that have no real understanding of what teachers do make stupid statements like the one written in "Teachers are over payed" . Teachers are on the clock in my case 8-3. In that time we are teaching students in class and rarely have the time to do the other things that are expected of us. Many people seem to forget the tests, essays and projects that need to be read and graded. Depending on the students, paperwork is needed to properly document progress. Parents meetings are called if kids are not preforming. Extra help is given during our lunch periods, etc. All of which is done on our own time. I start work at 7:30am and do not finish until 5pm everyday. We don't get overtime for the extra hours we put into your children. I work in queens NY and have 165 7th graders (12 year olds). Most people that have one 12 year old at home find it challenging. I dare anyone to try teaching for one year. I think, you will discover one of the most challenging and rewarding careers around.
PS: What do Programers do, play with computers all day thats not a real job. How does that feel? Hurtful right? Every job has its challenges
I like that challenge: "I
on Mon, 04/26/2010 - 03:00
I like that challenge:
"I dare anyone to try teaching for one year. I think, you will discover one of the most challenging and rewarding careers around."
I must admit, that before I started teaching I didn't quite understand what went into teaching. I was naive myself. But after my first year of teaching, my understanding of teaching changed. So I think your challenge is a good one: the individual would change their mind about the profession very very fast!
Are you serious?
on Tue, 05/25/2010 - 04:45
Do you seriously think that teachers only work from 9-3? You are surely mistaken. Teachers have to mark students work, which is a time consuming job(lets see you mark 30 essays). Teachers have to mark and grade their students handed in work, and review it on their own time. Their own time being those weekends and virtually every holiday. And another thing, teachers don't get their free summer their first year as a teacher. Teachers must take additional classes during their first years as a teacher during their summers, because the curriculum is changing(most of the time). Also teachers must deal with calculating report cards, parent teacher nights, etc etc. Now if you seriously think that teachers are overpaid, you are SURELY MISTAKEN.
Btw, this was typed by a male 16 year old, future teacher. Looks like the student just shut wifey up.
It's not just the marking...
on Tue, 05/25/2010 - 21:06
It's not just the marking... the preparation for the classes takes up a lot of time. In order to have a really great class it takes a lot of preparation on the part of the teacher.
I have a friend Lab Assistant at our school. She used to be a sales representative. She told me that for every time she had to present to a client, she would prepare so much. And now seeing that the teacher has a presentation 5 - 6 h a day, she cannot believe that we're getting such low pay (in comparison to her as a sales rep). In order to have great classes, we need to prepare, and then reflect on the classes.
A teacher's job is not as obvious as most people would think.
The "16 year old male,
on Fri, 08/27/2010 - 19:36
The "16 year old male, future teacher" needs to tale a long hard look at Canada's Employment Equity Act. As a male, he has somewhere between none & zero chance of becoming a school teacher.
Oh, almost forgot, Ontario Universities treat their B.Ed programs as a cash cow. They graduate approximately 200% more aspiring teachers every 12 months than the market can absorb.
Good luck kid, when you grow up, spend years in University eating KD, then years working at Starbucks. You can go home to your parent's basement every night and stare at your B.Ed degree while the "stupid" kids complete apprentice programs to become electricians, plumbers, welders, and other in demand trades that hire based on skill not gender.
Men have the same
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:37
Men have the same opportunities in teaching as women. How can your statement be so opposite of every other profession?
Just because you're trained in Ontario, does not mean that work has to be in Ontario. No one said that trades programs were for stupid kids.
You are totally ignorant. Many countries crave for Canadian teachers.
Oh and guess what? I'm a 16 year old female.
I think that that other kid and I have a more realistic view of the world and the workforce than you do.
Bad teachers need to go!
on Mon, 05/02/2011 - 07:26
As I read these very passionate posts I reflect on my education. I was taught to blindly line up, listen and regurgitate information. It angers me when I read bill boards that state, "If you can read this, Thank a Teacher." So on the opposite side of that statement who do we blame for the increasing numbers of children that leave grade school not reading, that fall behind? Parents are frustrated with what is happening at their schools and teachers are becoming more and more defensive. Why are teachers so defensive? Why do they blame the special needs student population for their failure to teach the other children? Why is it when a child falls behind is it the parents fault but when the child succeeds it is the teacher who is to be celebrated?
My experience with the school system both as a student and as a parent can be summed up in one word - DISAPPOINTING. I credit my success to my mother who did not finish school but with hard work and determination started her own business and was able to retire at fifty. Not bad for a woman who was labelled retarded when she entered school in the early 50's.
I also have several family members that are teachers and sing the same song that many of these other posts trumpet. The children are out of control, there are too many kids in the class. However whenever it comes to bargaining time what is the first thing that teachers look for- MORE MONEY... MORE TIME OFF... when it would seem that they really need more support staff and more teachers. As we come to budget time in the school year and principals are looking at their numbers and the government is looking to cut education budgets. I am certain that you will not see the teacher's and their union collectively bargain to take wage cuts to save their members to keep their work load manageable. Nope they are looking to get more money and those teachers that make less will find themselves waiting tables. Where is the benefit of collective bargaining for those members of the union?
When looking at the raw compensation numbers you must look at the CONSIDERABLE benefit package that teachers are entitled to during their career and for a number of years in to their pensionable retirement. If you add the value of the benefit package, holiday time, the indexed to inflation defined pension package you will find that teacher salaries are on par with most professional profession like chartered accountants and engineers. All this and they are not accountable for job performance.
I encourage every teacher that has written in to post to do this - retire, quit and join the private work force. You are like everyone else out there and have free will so if the teaching profession is so bad leave it and join us working sixty to eighty hours a week 48-50 weeks a year. I know a few waiters out there just looking for a opportunity to fill your shoes.
Enjoy...
I agree.
on Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:21
I hate complainers!
And teachers, for some reason, seem to complain a lot.
I am a teacher, and when I hear other teachers complain, I just walk away. I can't win... I tried having debates with other teachers - just doesn't work.
But some teachers are really great! They don't complain, and they actually want to be teaching, want to see their students succeed. These are the types of people the teaching profession should attract! Not every teacher out there is meant to be a teacher... maybe they got there because they had nothing better to do, or maybe they didn't have the marks to make it into another profession. Or maybe they wanted the time off. These are the teachers that I like the least.
Anyway, what you pointed out that teachers always want more money... yeah, I guess that's true. And that what they should want is more support staff, more teachers. I like that. But I'm sure it's not so black and white, like you point out. For instance, let's not blame the "teachers" for more kids dropping out in the last few years.
But I do think you have a point...LET'S STOP COMPLAINING!!!!
I love your comment.... so
on Tue, 06/07/2011 - 06:57
I love your comment....
so true..and they want more and more...I'm a single mom, have two kids and one with ADHD. I have not experienced one teacher YET who really seems to care...Im also a student working on completing my Psych Degree...I work and have debt coming out of my eye balls. I recieve no where near what these teachers make...yet I dont constantly complain. As well, Ive considered getting my Masters Degree and becoming a Psychologist, a demanding and challenging profession which surpasses a teaching certificate by far. Yet I still wont make what they do...its very sad and frustrating.
Yes, they sure are!
on Fri, 04/23/2010 - 15:03
Teachers are an integral part of any educational system. Not only one, here in US for example, but all educational systems. Being underpaid is a detrimental factor for getting less out of your teachers and more lazy work or loosing the right talent to more lucrative positions in the private sector. Pay the teachers more, so they can feel valued, thus they can give value and our children of tomorrow will actually be ready to lead the world. That's just my opinion.
You spelled losing
on Sun, 07/18/2010 - 00:41
You spelled losing wrong!
That is annoying, who taught you how to spell? They did not do a good job!
Be careful of your criticisms
on Thu, 05/12/2011 - 07:35
I'd point out that your post includes a comma splice. Who taught you punctuation? If you have a substantive argument to make, please do so. Otherwise, please be quiet. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.
Being overpaid or underpaid
on Sun, 08/01/2010 - 01:47
Being overpaid or underpaid is subjective, you need a reference of comparison. Reality where I live (Ontario, Canada) is that teachers are paid a ridiculously high wage for their work hours (also factoring in summers off), and they have union protection the rest of us working stiffs can only dream off. I also note what comes off our taxes, working through the summers and with no defined benefit pension (for most companies) contributes to their government pension. Most people do not realize that teachers are allowed to double dip, that is to say they can collect their pension and collect full salary if they wish to continue teaching. I knew someone collecting full pension plus $35K extra a year teaching one course for an hour a day. Also note they can bank their sick days without limitation !!!
You must also keep in mind
on Thu, 10/28/2010 - 19:15
You must also keep in mind that teachers only get paid for a 35 hour work week but most teachers probably put in 50-60 hour work weeks which they are not paid for in order to be properly prepare for their classes and so that the students can get appropriate and timely feedback from their assessments. As far as double dipping is concerned, there is a limit as to how much retired teachers (as with any job) can sub and receive full pension. Any retired employee for any career can work a limited amount of hours a year and receive full pension, not just teachers.
Teachers, at least in Canada, cannot bank any time. Our sick days carry over from year to year but we cannot get time in lieu or paid out for them.
gee, I remember before I
on Sat, 04/24/2010 - 01:35
gee, I remember before I went to university teachers were spreading propaganda about "if you do what you love, then the pay doesn't matter" (dont worry, I never really believed that anyways XD) but you guys do get good benefits, like frequen staff meetings with sandwitches (yum :P)
Joking aside, I see your point as being: "people don't appreciate the true value that teachers have on society," but I must point out the irony that you are dismissing the role of the train engineer in the process.
In another perspective one could say that effective transportation of goods and materials is the backbone of society. Where a teacher's mistake may be an unmotivated student, a wrecked train could spell the loss of hundreds of lives, millions of dollars of goods and equipment and/or a crippled transportation line. From a recent case study, the lack of transportation following the Hatian earthquake was devastating, leaving thousands of people to starve and suffer from the inhumanity in the face of scarcity.
Regardless, in a capitalistic society, pay is fueled by materialistic values and even governments who put forth the resources for public education must weigh the opportunity costs of expenditures for each public service. When you put it this way, it is evident that the wage of a teacher is not decided by how important you percieve your job to be, but the amount of resources that are available to the government for use in the public education system.
Also, as having gone through the grades form k-12 myself, I can tell you that for each teacher there is that may "deserve" a pay raise, there is also a teacher who "deserve" a pay cut (based on how they've contributed to my state of advancement as a human being).
So for as much as I agree more or less with your assessment on teacher's worth, the matter is more complicated than simply "are teachers worth the money"
Two Points
on Mon, 04/26/2010 - 16:27
1) I don't dismiss train engineers. I point out that train engineers do have a lot of responsibility and they are paid well for it. The point is that teachers have MORE responsibility than that, but are paid less.
2) Teachers and government are not part of a "capitalistic society" as you say. Government does not feel supply/demand pressure, nor get rewarded for good decisions like a business might with more profit. In the mid-term, government tax income is the same whether they do a good job or a bad job in education. The only benefit to government is if they reduce expenses, by keeping pay and resources low, then government gets more money to slosh around to more politically visible causes.
Teachers are the reason that
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:31
Teachers are the reason that we have train engineers. So I would have to say that education is the backbone of society. Therefore educators are the most important thing. In this modern world we would not have any professionals, trades people, or even minimum wage workers.
But I do agree that some teachers deserve a raise more than others. Some of the teachers I've had have really taught me much more than just the curriculum, whereas others much less.
It is really disappointing
on Fri, 07/23/2010 - 06:43
It is really disappointing to hear stories like this. Thanks for informing the rest of us. How come colleges allocate a lot of fundings in building structures but largely ignore the low salaries of their teaching faculties? That is so weird and ---yes dissapointing.
I believe that teachers are
on Tue, 09/14/2010 - 19:54
I believe that teachers are worth the money. They are educators, well versed in their field and we have to remember that teaching is an art that doesn't come easy to everyone. It is hard for many people to get their message across and teachers send across a lot more than messages.
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They are!
on Thu, 10/28/2010 - 10:16
Teachers are very much worth the money, they are the ones that teach you and make you so good that you write this post here..
I work as a teacher, In
on Mon, 02/14/2011 - 04:19
I work as a teacher, In Alberta.My hours are considered full time. I've been in my post for many years and I start work at 8: 43 am. I teach 3 classes, then I have a lunch break (every two weeks I supervise lunches) I have one hour of classes after lunch and then I have 2 prep hours. (I do use them)However many of my colleagues do not use their prep hours. Two have been written up numerous times for plain laziness, but due to contracts cannot be fired. We have 152 instructional days in a year. Of these instructional days 6 are given as personal development (in addition to the other PD days)and 6 as personal days. then they take 5 sick days every year. There are roughly 6 hours in a School day (not including lunch) and two re prep periods. I personally know two teachers who therefore 'work' 135 days for four hours. for this they are paid a salary of between 75 000 and 85 000.
In a year therefore (not including lunch breaks) These teachers 'work' (they let the kids run wild)
540 hours in a class room (and they do not take .
at 85 000 a year this comes to $157.40 an hour (plus pension and health benefits, as well as teacher discounts on everything from can insurance to liquor at the local liquor store)
Please do not misunderstand. Some of us put in three times that amount of work. however +$50 per hour is still pretty sweet for myself.
As a teacher I believe we've seriously inflated what a teacher is worth from 70 years ago when my great grandmother worked for apples, food and a few pennies in a one-room school house on the prairies.
This is shown by the massive amounts of surplus teachers we have in Alberta. I know of some who have been substitutes for years, unable to find work.
This is also demonstrated by
on Wed, 02/16/2011 - 05:22
This is also demonstrated by how hard it actually is to get into teaching school in Alberta... I know some people try for years to get in, but can't, because the so many want to get in!
Thank you for the voice of
on Thu, 02/17/2011 - 01:27
Thank you for the voice of reason
You have to be kidding me
on Wed, 06/29/2011 - 07:53
I would love to know where you work!! There is no way you are a teacher in Alberta who is considered full time. I am a teacher in Alberta and have worked in a couple of different divisions. Most teachers start the day with supervision 9(currently that is 8:10 where i am)they are "on" until the bell where it is straight to class. I have never worked anywhere where we did not have lunch /recess supervision at least half the week. So on a good day 15 minute coffee...if you have no students in for various reasons and maybe half hour lunch.Many teachers run various groups at lunch. We have 200 days in which there are approx 8 professional development days-hate to tell you this-we work on those days......staff meetings, learning new things like new report cards or assessment practices etc. As for personal days we get 1.....I STATE ONE.....1 personal day with pay. The other 2 personal days we pay our replacement out of our salary!!!! We do have good benefits and we do have access to sick daysor medical days. Most teachers do not leave the school until 4....we are expected to be available for parental phone calls. Some are there later. That is not counting the ones who run band or sports programs. We are expected to plan lessons, create and mark exams and create IPPS ( individualized program plans) for students with codes. We also have to have behaviour support plans for students with behaviours and keep up to date anecdotal notes. Three times a year we do report cards....all this paperwork is done during our prep time...which is usually one block every two days....so maybe 2 hours a week. Yes we are paid 10 months a year. We are not paid for any holidays...easter, xmas, summer. We are paid for our contracted days that is it. Are we paid well, yes. No one is suggesting it is horrible pay, however in comparison to other careers that require equal amount of training.... education does not keep up. I am proud to be a teacher, and will continue teaching! However, I have the right like everyone else to continue to advocate for better working conditions...that includes pay, but it also includes issues that directly effect the students, special education funding, class size, resources etc. Educate yourself before you sound off, teaching is an easy profession to bash-everyone has been to school so they feel they have some insight-if you think its so easy please go to school and join our ranks...despite what many say there is not mass amounts out there not working!
The future of our society" !
on Tue, 02/22/2011 - 01:21
The future of our society" ! Oh, it sounds SO beautiful. Reality is, we take the most unmotivated students in university, the ones scared of the real world, the ones who want "the lifestyle" of 8 months work, and we put them through ONE year of teachers college - a moron could pass this, and then we have them teach our children. Sounds like a plan to me ! It's like a self reinforcing system of underachievement. In fact, a friend of ours' daughter who is in first year has already said flat out she is going to be a teacher cause she doesn't know what the hell she wants to do with her life and teaching is the easy way to go. Nice.
DOn't get me started. Teacher's salaries should be reduced by 20%. ONtario teachers at $90K in 2012 ? OMG. THat's just sick. WHy work for a living. WE are going down the tubes in Ontario if we pay those salaries to people who don't add enough value.
If you think teaching is for
on Sat, 04/30/2011 - 03:25
If you think teaching is for the dumb, why aren't you and your ignorant comments working as teachers.
You would have no career, home, car, life, comments on forums had you not learnt everything from your teachers.
I think that we should reward teachers for preparing everyone for life.
Yes, that was harsh. Sorry. But you need to realize the importance of teachers and the ignorance of your comments.
To be honest, you just took
on Fri, 05/20/2011 - 12:28
To be honest, you just took the words off my mouth where treating out teachers are concerned!! If it wasn’t for the dedicated hours that them spent on our children, we wouldn’t have a single kid who did well in life and I am not talking only in terms of a good education – I mean their role in the overall development of the child, right from character development and a whole lot of other training that the teachers give them!! They definitely should be the highest paid in any society!!Gps navigation
I think your poor typing and
on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 00:10
I think your poor typing and grammatical skills speak volumes about your educational background.
What is it that you do for a living? Perhaps you would also benefit from a 20% reduction in pay.
Your friend's daughter is in first year university? And she doesn't know what she wants to do?? Call the newspapers!! It's unbelievable. And guess what? Saying you will become a teacher doesn't mean you will. She has to finish a degree in a teachable subject and then hope her grades are high enough to actually get accepted to Teachers' College.
I am so tired of people bashing teachers and the profession. The fact of the matter is they are hardly the most unmotivated students in university. Did you go to university? Do you know any teachers personally? I do. Quite a few. The ones I know were the top of their class. Usually doing double majors and still doing better than most. So, after completing a 4 year university degree, with top grades, they might be accepted into teacher's college. You must have been that moron who tried to enter teacher's college? Then, once you do graduate you have to try to find a job, just like everyone else. Didn't you hear about the shortage of jobs? The is no guarantee of a position. If you want a guarantee you better go into policing or get hired as an apprentice in a trade union (now there's where the money is, and you get paid to learn. Maybe you should redirect your hostility toward the overpaid trades?). Let's assume you finally get a job after spending months or even years on the sub list. After the first year, hope you don't get a pink slip.
What will teaching be like? Well, for you, as if you would ever become a teacher, it would mean showing up when the first bell rings and leaving when the last bell rings. Not too many teachers actually do that. And if you happen to decide that teaching phys ed, drama, art or music would be really easy - think again. Now you are more or less required to work extra (unpaid) hours to keep your program running because everyone thinks such things (not including phys ed, of course) are useless in society. Who wants to listen to music, go to concerts, plays, see beautiful or interesting art?? Probably not you. You probably don't listen to music, or watch television, right? Good thing your english and math skills are so good! Hmm...
I believe teachers at all levels are not recognized for their contribution to society. I also believe that there are some who should be paid more than others, but that doesn't work well in a union or public situation. I believe the government should support the public education system more but from an arm's length. They should hire educational experts (who have actually taught in the schools at the grades they are consulting for - not academics or people who taught one year, couldn't hack it and decided to go into admin instead). These educational experts should redesign the system to be more current and flexible since the world, technology, occupations and issues are changing so quickly. Our educational system was designed during the industrial revolution. Our society has very different needs now and we need to make adjustments to suit it. If the educational system is failing I believe it is due to standardization, old policies, politics (underfunding) and technology that isn't keeping up with the current global environment.
As for the 'vacation time' of teachers. That time was designed for families, not for the teachers. Politicians would like to change it to year round with shorter weeks and different holidays. They will tell you many reasons why they strongly believe it would be best for the students and that teachers are being selfish. The reality is that it is all about economics, not about learning. This type of year round educational system would make it even more difficult for some struggling students to keep up. It would also be hard for families to arrange time off for vacations and for younger students who would need to be watched on that extra day off a week that most parents do not have off. Check areas in BC that have tested it. They either have found detrimental results or nothing that would be especially beneficial to justify the move.
I'm sure you feel you have legitimate reasons to take out your frustrations on teachers. Maybe you had a bad experience or feel too many people are making more money than you. I wish I could say that more education would help you, but that isn't necessarily true. Being more educated in the areas you wish to complain about would help. Ask yourself, who should be making $90K a year? Who are making much more than that and is that justified? I think you'll find that people aren't being paid on any standard. Some professions are making more than they probably should, others aren't making nearly enough. Unfortunately that all depends on our point of view, life experiences and philosophies. Wouldn't it be great if we all had enough and worked for the mere satisfaction of doing a job well for the betterment of society?
I would really like to know who you think should be making $90K per year. I think that would probably explain a lot.
Wow
on Thu, 05/12/2011 - 06:24
I cannot even begin to image why you are so bitter. However, I hope that one day your ignorance will be a friend to you, as you will most likely die, old and bitter. You have my pity.
THE FUTURE OF SOCIETY! Nice
on Tue, 05/24/2011 - 15:04
THE FUTURE OF SOCIETY! Nice Title. I agree with your post. Teacher are educator. Teaching is such a good art in which you can learn twice i.e. When you learn for yourself and when you teach others. when you teach something that means you are sharing your valuable knowledge. So Teachers Worth the Money.
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