Teacher Pay Scale Across Canada

I couldn't believe it. I was in shock when I actually looked it up. This last year, I was making $30,000 less in Quebec than if I was working as a teacher in Alberta. I used to live in Alberta, and therefore I can't believe that I am worth so much less, just by living a few provinces down; and this doesn't even include the huge taxes that are taken off here in Quebec as opposed to Alberta.

Previously, I wrote a post about salaries in Canada and how they compare to test scores. Higher Teacher Salary = Better Education. In that post I was stunned at how correlated those two values were. But it seemed like the pay scale were somewhat comparable (plus or minus a 5 thousand dollars). But I was comparing statistics from 2001. Not now! Just a few years later and now there's a HUGE difference in the salaries.

Since it was not so easy for me to look up the most recent salary grids for all the provinces (a lot of clever internet searching, including emailing some schools for first hand information), I thought I would post all the provinces' teaching salary scales here (as a comparison), for future reference, for myself and anybody else that wants to know.

Just a few guidlines:

In most provinces, the salary is not the same in all cities / districts, but within 10% of each other. I'll therefore take a sample of a city I wouldn't mind living in (usually smaller cities can't attract as many teachers, so they pay more than the big cities). Also, the salaries usually depend on the amount of years of university/college, and years of teaching experience. I will use my university years (6 years - 4 yrs undergrad, 2 yrs ed. after-degree) and teaching experience (8 years) as an example. If you want to check for yourself, I give links to the actual sites from which I got the information, thus you can check the salary for you specifically.

Enjoy:


Province Salary Year Link
British Columbia (Vancouver Island) $72,242 2008 Vancouver Island North Payscale
Alberta (Calgary) $74,299 2007 Collective agreement - ATA
Saskatchewan $67,293 2007 Collective Agreement - STF
Manitoba (Winnipeg) $74,317 2008 Collective Bargaining - MTS
Ontario (Toronto) $75,688 2007 Collective Agreement - OSSTF
Quebec $46,341 2007 Collective Agreement - QPAT
New Brunswick $57,126 2008 None - negotiations under way.
Nova Scotia (Halifax) $67,277 2007 Collective Agreement - NSTU
P.E.I. $60,296 2008 PEITF Handbook
Newfoundland $61,899 2007 Collective Agreement -NLTA

I's not only Alberta! Most provinces are on par with Alberta. It's Quebec - as if it was in Medieval times. What is up with that? This can't last long. If in Ontario and New Brunswick (the two neighbouring provinces) are $10,000 to $30,000 higher than here in Quebec, there is no way Quebec will not have to catch up with the salary - It's risking a major shortage of teachers in the next few years. Next year, I'm looking for a job in Ontario (I'm only a half hour away... I might as well move that half hour away, to save on taxes also). I cannot believe Quebec... where are these enormous taxes going to? - not the teachers, that's for sure!



Updated version of this comparison for 2011:Teacher Pay Scale Across Canada - Update for 2011

Other Teacher Salary Rankings: Canadian Teacher Salary Rankings of Provinces and Territories: prepared by the BC Teacher Federation Research

Also see: Are Teachers Worth the Money?

Further Reading:

Inside Track: Getting Hired to Teach in a Canadian School

Keywords: 
teacher pay scale, salary, salary grid, salary schedule, canada comparison
Submitted by bogusia on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 21:21

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Comments

Wow. You really see the difference in priorities. In Quebec there is a very high proliferation of private schools relative to some of the other provinces; I wonder how that affects the salaries.

Another thing is that the Quebec agreement may be quite old. Over the past couple of years perhaps the others have lapsed while the Quebec one will be in effect until 2009. I did quickly look at it and found references in there until 2009 so perhaps it is due to be renewed this year and the wages will be adjusted at that time. The Alberta agreement was negotiated in 2007.

Usually union agreements have a 3 to 5 year lifespan.

I worked and interviewed at several private schools in Montreal, and all of them pay about the same as the public school system. Some pay 90% of the public scale, others pay just a bit over... but nothing like $30,000 higher.

Also, I remember that a few years ago, the Quebec teachers striked (just as I moved here - about three years ago), so I'm sure they just recently had a negotiated contract.

I'm orginally from Toronto but work in NYC teaching public school (elementary special education) for 5 years with a masters plus 30 credits. I earn about 61,000 and the starting salary is about 43,000. If I moved back to TO - would my salary be about the same or would they put me at starting new teacher salary? Any ideas? Since cost of living is similar in both cities I'm hoping I wouldn't be a beginner!!!

Visit this website to find out the information you are looking for. http://www.teachinontario.ca/tio/en/salary.htm

You would need to prove your experience with a letter from your school or school board but all of your experience would count.

Thanks for taking the time to dig up all this info and even make the first-hand calls. It's interesting to compare how teachers are treated & paid in Canada vs. the US. I think we could learn a thing or two. Our private school teachers get considerably less than public.

ps...your captcha is REALLY hard ;)

Thanks for the heads up on the captcha. I'll change it to a text version.

yah... that's a brand new agreement. Ugh. and we get taxed way more here! My only thing that I'm ok with is that my childcare is dirt cheap and if my kids go to post secondary here its WAY cheaper than outside of Quebec

that's why your taxes are higher. I moved from QC to ON a few years ago and to be honest, I'd rather pay more taxes and have more accessible secondary education, child care, health care, and insurance...

This was interesting to me because the salaries in the United States are also very different. In fact, here in South Carolina, salaries are half of the lowest in the Canada. Salaries in New York and California are much higher but the cost of living is much higher there too. Thanks for sharing.

You also have to keep in mind the conversion rates of the American dollar and the Canadian dollar here.

Hi there.
I have been looking up for info about how to become a QC teacher, since that has been on my mind ever since I lived in Montreal for a short amount of time back in 2003. I'm an ESl and EFl and Modern Languages Teacher, who hold a BEd from an european teacher's college and a Masters in TESOL from a well-known american university. I taught in Ireland, England, in the States until I went back to my home country Portugal. I have to say that this was a really stupid move. Although the move was for family reasons, I should have had stayed put. I taught in the States while I was taking my Masters in TESOL at the University's language Centre and got some ESL-related jobs at the same time. After my MA I got certified for Maryland and passed all tests and interviews and became a public school teacher in MD. At the same time I taught an ESL course for pre-beginners at a local community college every Saturday morning. As a first year teacher (2002) I was making 41k a year plus getting comfortable money from the comm. college. When all this happens like this, you end thinking that it might be a little like this everywhere. I know, too young, too dumb. When I decided to go back to my home country I thought that three years away wouldn't make a difference and that, with my qualifications and experience I would get a teaching job at a state school, where pay is higher. Big mistake. In Portugal they don't care how good you are, how well qualified you are or what kind of experience you've got. You're just a number in a lottery contest and that's how you get a placement in a public school. And since they hold teachers for over 35 years at their jobs, it's too hard to get in and when you finally get a yearly contract, this doesn mean you'll get one the following year and you'll be living out of 15k after taxes for as well as 15 years if you're lucky. You're never guaranteed a place within the Ministry. They save thousands of euros this way. And before you say life is cheap here, hold on your horses. I have the excat same expenses now (2010) than I had in the States back in 2002. Yes food out is extremely good and cheap but the rest is outrageous and with a mere 1100 per month you don't go far.
This is why I can't accept that, after teaching for 11 years and being more qualified than my own Minister of Education (although she's a well-known writer here) and way more qualified than my own PM I still don't make ends meat and nobody appreciated you here, since you're may not even be in the same school year after year and you never know until a day before September contracts begin if you're going to have a job that year.
Sad, but true. Salaries are low everyhwere. Extremely underpaid in most countries for what teachers work. Yes, if we do feel underappreciated we do have the right to complain.
Cheers and hope to meet some of you in Montreal one day.

just looking more closely at this... my education and experience is very similar to this example... and I teach in Quebec and my salary this year is $60K

Hi,
I would really appreciate it if you can help me answer this question, on which step would I start according to Quebec salary scale, considering that I have 4ys undergrad + 2 YS ed after degree and no teaching experience.
thank you

I'm not sure, but according to the document (pg. 75) that is attached to the original post:

" A teacher shall be assigned the step corresponding to the year of experience he or she
is in the process of acquiring in accordance with article 6-2.00, without exceeding
step 17, increased by:
- two steps, if his or her schooling is evaluated at 17 years;
- four steps, if his or her schooling is evaluated at 18 years;
- six steps, if his or her schooling is evaluated at 19 years or more without a
doctorate."

Looks like you would be in step 4 of the Single Class.

I never read that clause before... I wonder if I should look at my contract, and see if I'm not really getting the right amount of money, thinking that the steps correspond only to the number of years of experience.... Hmmmmmmm.

I greatly apppreciate your help but I am still unsure about the equivalency of my 6 years university according to Quebec system. WOULD THEY EVALUATE MY EDUCATIN AS 17 OR 18 YEARS OF SCOLARITY? how do they calculate anyway the years of scolarity?
Also, what I don't understand if I take you as an example and I look at the income chart that you provided it shows that you earned only 46,341$ for the year 2007 and that puts you on step 8 of the single class according to the salary scale that I checked on the document in the alberta teacher agreement 2007. However, according to what I see if your education is evaluated at 18 years scolarity and 8 years experience,that would mean you should have been on step 12.
Because 18 years scolarity= step 4 + 8 years experience=12
Tell me if I am wrong because I am trying to understand and I am going to keep searching documents that can explain more on how the system in quebec evaluate teachers who graduate with 4 ys underg and 2years ed after degree.
thank you

See, I am doubting myself right now. I know that I am in step 9 right now (because that's what they told me at my school... and that's what I'm getting paid), but are they scamming me? I'm at a private school, without a board, without a union, so I don't know.

Just like you, I read this document as if I would have to be on step 12 (or 13, cause I have 1 more year of experience now, since I wrote this post). I don't know...

I'll ask around my collegues and let you know...

Thanks for the help and I will keep looking too.

Thank you for posting this! I have been doing a little research and have found it difficult to see the collective agreements. I am in New Brunswick working at mental health and am considering a career change. I have a 4 year BA and I have a MA in Counselling Psychology. My interest is in guidance counselling. I am wondering if it is worth while to leave my job, go back to school for a BEd and pursue guidance counselling. I cannot find anything in NB as far as having a Master's degree (I am sure that you are considered to have a cert 6 if you have a Master's degree). Can you help me out?

Thanks!

Thanks for the information although part of me wishes that I never would have seen this. This is pretty harsh. I too am a teacher in Quebec who started my carrer in Calgary. A few years ago the differences were not as bad, but this is downright awful. On top of it all Quebec will not acknowlege my grade 12 done in NB, (they will acknowledge grade 12 and 13 from Ontario - this is justified that it is like CEGEP), I have attempted to fight this but it is a no win situation. Us poor dumb maritimers! It is strage as I read your post, as I feel I could have written this myself. I am ready to pack it up and head to Ontario as well.

I`m a teacher and have been living in Quebec for the past several months. While I certainly must agree that the difference in salaries as per the chart above is astonsihing, I have to bring up a few points. First, I should say that my rent in Toronto was upwards of 1400 dollars per month, my car insurance nearly 3000 per year, medical costs through the roof due to no subsidized drug plan, child care benefits 200 dollars per month less than they are in Quebec, and daycare costs of nearly 1000 per month. In Montreal, we were able to buy a 4 bedroom house for 190.000 dollars, I receive 207 dollars more per month for child care, my daycare costs are 7 dollars per day, and my costs for insurance (INCLUDING 2 cars, the house AND life)are 180 dollars per month compared to 270 in Toronto. So while I COMEPLETLY agree that a teacher`s salary of 45000 with a masters degree and 7 years experience is apalling, I have to defend Quebec at least a little bit! Finally: I definately think they will have to wake up and catch up soon; too many teachers are leaving. So here`s hoping!

I know. Montreal even though it's a big city, is very very affordable. I love it here, and I don't plan to move any time soon.

However, we're not talking about Toronto vs. Montreal. We're talking about the two provinces. Although Toronto is crazy, not all of Ontario is like that. Plus, if I live on the border of Ontario and Quebec, I should try to find teaching work in Ontario not Quebec. Same goes for New Brunswick and Quebec.

Hi I am a bilingual teacher (Spanish and English) here in Dallas Texas. My husband got a job in Montreal Canada and we are planning to move there soon, I wanted to know if it is possible to continue my profession as a teacher. I have 6 years of experience and I am certified from the state of Texas). I am also certified to teach Sapnish in junior and High School. I am currently teaching first grade. I will really appreciate if you can give me some information. Thanks

You can probably get a teaching job here. It might be a bit hard to get your ideal job: teaching grade 1 in English (or Spanish) here is hard. Most schools teach in French at the very early grades. Even the English schools teach mostly French to the younger kids. But you can always try at the private English schools.

I know that there are many teachers that come from the United States and are approved to teach here also. After doing some paperwork, you can probably get a teaching certificate for Quebec.

Good luck!

Looking at a 2008 copy of the Winnipeg Teacher/Clinician Salary Schedule, I see that a teacher of 8 years in Class 5 (which you would be unless you have a masters) would earn $69,689. This is less than the figure you posted. Where did you find your numbers?

I gave the link in the post, but here is the more specific link: https://www.mbteach.org/cbs/agreements/2008/winni_08

I assumed I was class 6 though (6 years of education. 2 degrees).

No more whining about your salaries. Teachers only work 6 months a year, so if you are making $75k for 6 months, your annual salary (if you actually worked a full year like the rest of us) would be $150k per year.

Add that to the fact you are teaching ABCs and counting to 10, and you are well-paid for what you do!

If you want to kill it, get an MBA, work 100 hours a week - ALL YEAR. Then you will have a bit more mad money.

Moral of the story - work a full year, get a real degree, or stop whining. You get 6 months off a year, and teach from lesson plans and books as it is.

I welcome your whiny comments.

Bay Street Boy

Thanks for your comment. I'm actually surprised that I didn't get your type of comment before.

First I want to defend myself. I'm not comparing salaries of Stock Brokers to Teachers, or Lawyers to Teachers. I am only comparing salaries of teachers from one part of the country to another part. It doesn't make sense for a teacher doing the exact same thing in one part of the country getting paid half the salary in the other part of the country (keeping all other things equal, such as living expenses), especially if these salaries are mandated, and not negotiated by individuals, as in the private sector.

Anyway, the other part of your comment bad mouths teachers in general. I realize that there is that sentiment among a lot of people. I might have been one of those people before I became a teacher. I agree to a certain extent that teachers are whiners and sometimes we don't know how good we have it, but please believe me that teaching isn't all that easy. Convincing you about that would be pointless, however. Only becoming a teacher would probably change your mind (as it did in my case).

Thanks for your comment, and I know you're not alone in your thinking.

What is really sad is that you are an adult man, ... oh I take that back "Bay street boy," that is home dissing teachers at 6:40 on a Saturday night!

There is no moral to your story just teenage angst!

Dear Bay Street Boy,

I am a young man who is presently working on his undergraduate degree and his B.Ed. in Nova Scotia.

Clearly, sir, you have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever taken a teaching program yourself? Have you ever accompanied a teacher inside and outside the classroom to see how much work is actually involved in the profession?

As far as making "$75k for 6 months" as you say, there are few teachers who make such a salary. In fact, $65 000 per year is more realistic. Do the research.

You say that we teach ABCs and count to ten. If that's all you learned in school or if all you think that is being taught, you have a very poor vision of education. Education is about molding and developping the minds of children and adolescents, the minds that will lead us in the future. Are you aware that teachers offer such courses as biology, physics, calculus, accounting, French language, law?

You then say that we should get a real degree. What does that even mean? Are you proposing that we all run out and get our MBAs like you?

You also say that we teach from lesson plans and books. I wasn't aware of this and neither are my university professors. Imagine our surprise because all these years, we have been preparing our own lesson plans each night, one different lesson plan for each class that we teach (which can be up to five classes, by the way). You must therefore provide me with more details as to where I can obtain these magnificent resources!

Sir, the purpose of my comment is not to complain about teachers' salaries. As a matter of fact, I'd like to tell you that I agree with you, "[teachers] are well paid for what [they] do". Instead, I want to show you (and whomever else decides to read this discussion) that your comment is not credible in any way. As you have a MBA, you should understand the importance of checking your facts and you have not done so. Everything that I have said is verifiable and supported by official documents available on the Internet.

I welcome and look forward to comments.

Brandon

WOW! I can not believe that there are still ignorant people such as yourself Bay Street Boy. I challenge you to spend a day in the classroom and then get back to me. We only work 6 months? It's actually more like 10 months. Do you think that classrooms magically clean themselves at the end of June? NO! That takes time. And who do you think sets them up and plans for the entire year all of August? That's right, teachers do. PS: teachers don't make that much until they work about 8-10 years. most start at $30,000 less. If you think all we do is teach kids to say their ABC's and count their 123's then you are certainly living in your own imaginary world. You do realize that we need to follow something called the CURRICULUM right? Did you learn just your ABC's and 123's in school... it seems like it. And lesson plans? Yeah, we do teach from lesson plans, that WE WRITE OURSELVES! They don't just write themselves, they take alot of time and planning. Amazing teachers spend hours planning lessons to engage students and keep them interested in their learning. They also write up something called report cards. I'd like to see you write one. We may get more like ONE month off a year, but it is well deserved. Going into teaching we also only get holidays at the peak times, we can just take vacation whenever we want, Something that we sacrifice when we sign up. As for you, do your research about the timeand effort it takes to be a teacher and then come talk to me. I would like to meet your teachers, because if that's all you think they did in your education then they were obviously not doing your job. You probably were just sitting in the back, not paying attention.

I just read a bunch of these comments. I'm a guy who has worked for about 27 years in the financial sector in downtown Toronto and boy do I wish I had become a teacher now as I'd be close to retiring soon on full pension. I know numerous teachers, both active and recently retired so I think I'm qualified to make a few observations. I believe teaching is a very rewarding profession with important responsiblities playing a major role in helping shape our kids into contributing members of our society. It's a great job but my point here is that it is a financially rewarding job also. Teachers salaries are fair, considering they're off the whole months of July and August (and also receive generous holidays during the Christmas break and March break). But teachers never recongnize a few very important things: complete job security even during economic recessionary/depressionary times (unlike the rest of us in the private sector) and even if completely incompetent on the job; superior benefits package as compared to the average person in the private sector; and most important a very lucrative pension plan that enables a teacher to retire at a very early age. I know a number of teachers who are close friends who retired at the ages of about 53 to 55 at full pension. This is absolutely ridiculous and comes at an extraordinary cost to the rest of us funding taxpayers who don't think of retiring until we're 65. All teachers need to recognize this and stop whining about compensation because their gold plated pensions and benefits package are part of their compensation and come at a very big cost that private companies would never contemplate offering their employees.

i must admit that i have to agree with the bay street boy. most, not all, of the teachers that i know whine about how tough a job they have. and i would agree that over time it has gotten tougher due to the polical correctness of society. challenges have increased with regards to discipline. and maybe the "fun" has decreased over time. however, those teacher friends of mine that are being truly honest, and there are a few, will readily concede that life is pretty good. not many jobs exist where after 10 years you can be making $60-80,000 for an incomplete years worth of work. indeed, you can spend your summers upgrading so that you can make even more money. all on the public's dime. the pension is gold-plated and the benefits are reasonable. the curriculum is spelled out; the daily planners are given to you; you don't even need to know your subject -- the notes are given to you. the marking scheme is predetermined; the report card comments are from canned programs. cut 'n' paste. and you have to set up and clean your own room before and after the school term? c'est domage. a downturn in the economy? ..... do you have any conception of what that means and how it affects the average joe?? no you don't because even if you suck as a teacher we can't get rid of you. you continue to collect your pay and have your extravagant hollidays. so, don't be complaining because no-one, other than your fellow narcissists, feels sorry for you. -- JOE

Wow I came upon this page upon speaking with a friend that is married to an elementary school teacher and he laughingly informed me that she "earns" just shy of $90000 a year. Even he conceded that was an outrageous sum for what teachers actually do. While I sympathize with teachers for what they have to put up with daily from students, parents and administrators this is no different from what any person puts up with at a normal job and they are no where near to compensation that teachers are paid. My point in even posting here is the average Joe has little sympathy for poor, unappreciated teachers that work 6 hours a day for 9 months a year and are paid better than 90% of the population. Get a grip, stop whining and do your fucking job and you wouldn't see as many people with negative attitudes toward your profession.

Hey JohnnyPunchClock. I cannot believe that your friend's wife makes $90,000. A lot of teaching pay scales have a ceiling of less than that (so after working 25 year they cannot make more than the ceiling). Where does she work (which province / country)? I would love to move there. I think if teachers did make that kind of money, then we would have a the best country of all... The people going into teaching would be of a high caliber and our young generation would benefit!

Now I would like to address the issue of working 6h a day for 9months. I think I will write a post on this, because it comes up a lot. What is the actual working day of a teacher? It's really not just the teaching. More about that later...

@hard to believe,

Believe it. Oh and before you try and make laughable assertions about teachers burning the midnight oil after school marking. preparing lesson plans and doing extra-curriculor I should mention that I personally know probably 20 teachers in Ontario and my own mother was a teacher (recently retired). I know not one teacher that spends any significant time doing prep work after school - it's a fallacy. Even if teachers spent 2 hours extra every single day they would still only be working 8 hours which is the least most people work. STOP WHINING

I have spent many a night going to bed while my mother was up marking papers til 2 in the morning. Many times during a late night dance practice, she was marking papers and nodding off from being so tired!! Students and their parents request to have her as a teacher. She should be paid as much as possible for guiding young minds and giving them the tools to succeed in University!!
My father (an MBA) spent his nights watching TV and was paid a bit more than my mother.......all this info on teachers not doing prep work and working overtime is coming from someone who is VERY uninformed. Perhaps you mother was not as dedicated. . .or perhaps she didn't teach English. . .which (trust me) creates stacks of papers to mark! There are also two ways of marking an essay . . .the easy way, and the dedicated "right" way. Teachers who care more for their spare time make these VERY dedicated teachers look bad to people (like you) who have no vision and are misguided by this. You are really generalizing here based on only YOUR personal observations!!!

If you had my mother for a teacher, you may have turned out to be much more of a deep thinker!

It's a fallacy that teachers do prep work after school? when do you think the planning and marking happens? There's also many other responsibilites that take up time - meeting with other staff re: students, individual student plans on top of the plan for the whole class, meeting with parents, dealing with misbehaviour after class, supervising students on the yard during our lunch and dealing with conflicts that happen their during the rest of our lunch or after school, before a principal deals with a behaviour issue, the teacher has usually spent a few hours on it already, planning trips, special events, shopping for resources on our time with our own money .....

The high salary of $90000 is for 10 years or more teaching experience AND almost a master's or equivalent - most elementary teachers do not make this amount. The average elementary teacher salary is about $60-65,0000 in ontario. By the way, high school teachers in ontario make more money than elementary teachers, maybe 10% more.

My son went on a band trip every year in high school for 4 to 5 days - they went to New Yook City, Banff, and Halifax. The three teachers gave up spending time with their own family to be there with my son and the other students for 24 hours a day for 4 or 5 days - WOW! They don't get paid extra, they don't get extra time off, no perks whatsoever. There are teachers doing extra for other people's children every minute of every day - we're lucky we have these people who care about our children, who don't care about making money, just want enough to have a decent life for them and their family.

We work hard for your children and we're happy to do that. What most teachers are trying to say is that we often feel undervalued and sadly - attacked. We often hear that we don't work very hard and we're overpaid - and sometimes we feel the need to defend ourselves. And like the Australian teacher said, why not support us instead of attacking us.

It's all for the children in the end. Helping teachers helps children and eventuallly helps society.

SHUT THE F UP, who are you to talk down about teachers? you're probably someone who doesn't have an education and is just jealous because you work at dairy queen and get paid minimum wage! Get over yourself. Teachers work very hard and get underpaid, so unless you are one, don't make any assumptions.

13 years ago (1997) I was dating a newly hired 24 year old elementary school teacher. On her second year on the job she was making 45000 a year. Teaching summer school would net her another 5K. Very well paid salary indeed. She never ever complained about her job or her pay.

But like many public service jobs in our country, many of them quickly lose grasp of reality.

I have no problem with school teachers getting the salary they do when compared to the monkeys at OPG Nuclear. Average education is 2 year college and average salary is just under 90K a year. With overtime some of them are making 130-150K, we are talking general labour not nuclear scientists.

...married to a teacher and he talks like that...won't be married for long....

What do MBAs do for 100 hrs per week? They make pie charts and powerpoints and reports. I know because I am an MBA. What is the responsibility level of your average MBA? Not much: Usually it's making sure the numbers from page two add up to the number on page one.

Teachers have heavy responsibility, and we should pay for that responsibility. They are, or should, be responsible for the outcome of the children of society. By paying them so little we also say that we expect little from them. And when we expect little, we get little.

We have whiny teachers because they are rendered powerless by the administrators. All they can do is whine. They are given a herd of undisciplined kids and told, without many resources, to cram a curriculum into their brains so they can pass some test. They don't have much say in what they can teach, nor how they can teach it. Their wages are set by someone far away and merit is unrewarded.

Teachers should be worth more than a mere MBA chart-maker, and they should be held accountable for results. If all they do is read the textbook and babysit then they are paid what they are worth now; but then where is our future going?

Well put!

MBAs turn into the vice presidents and CEOs who hire the children you prepare for the workforce. Just like teachers have to understand and teach different subjects, MBAs must understand and operationalize a diverse assortment of business and social sciences. Having a specialized MBA myself, as a Master of Science in Business Administration, Specializing in Strategic Human Resource Management and Organizational Change and Development, I am required to apply knowledge in: organizational behavior, labour relations, macro/micro economics, corporate finance, organization analysis & design, merger/acquisition Value extraction, change and transition management, business process redesign/re-engineering, performance measurement/management systems, staffing, classfication, HR program design & implementation, adult curriculum design and delivery, human capital management, workforce planning & talent management, human resource information systems (enterprise)... I could go on, but it should suffice to say that almost any profession or professional should contribute in some way to the betterment of society, the economy, a country, and its peoples. Teachers DON'T hold a monopoly over social importance or impact, although most teachers would say they do. I work around 40 hours a week, make $100K a year, and I spend most of my workdays trying to teach teachers how to run their own business, the education system itself. Teachers may know how to teach children, but they know squat about business. You're better off leaving that for an MBA, anyway...

What do you teach the teachers specifically?

I work with a government organization that develops curriculum and provides funding to the K-12 education sector. Probably 70% of our staff are ex-teachers, or are active teachers seconded to us from the school jurisdictions. One of the things I am teaching the teachers is how to re-design their curriculum and assessment development processes, operating procedures and jurisdictionallearning supports.

So where did you learn all that? MBA school would not have made you qualified to teach teachers how to redesign curriculum and operating procedures.

Wow, you sure know a lot of big words- must've taken some exemplary teaching to acquire such a prolific vocabulary.

If all you did as a MBA was make pie charts and powerpoints, and made sure the numbers on one page of a report carried-over to the next page, then you were a poor specimen of an MBA. The fact that this took you 100 hours a week is really sad. You are probably better-off working as a teacher, since you are obviously not cut-out for business. The blunt reality of all this is that there are competent and incompetent practitioners in any profession: teachers, MBAs, doctors, engineers, etc. Let's just hope, for the sake of our children, you are more suited to the teaching profession. :D

Most starting MBAs do spend their time making powerpoints and reports. The ones who do something else either learned it on the job, because the MBA doesn't actually teach you how to do any job at all, or they already knew it before they got their MBA.

Take Investment-Bankers, the most highly paid MBAs. _ALL_ they do is make powerpoints and spin numbers.

MBA does not teach you about any business, only about the concept of "business", which is useless by itself. There have to be ideas and skills and experience in some domain in which the business operates. MBAs think they can jump into any business at the VP level and do something, but that's because they are trained that way in school. In reality, they have to be open about learning the business, then they can use some of the training from MBA school. By the way, that training is very very high level and summarized -- a bit like learning to be a chef from watching cooking shows.

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